Anybody want to start a new business? I would almost pay for a filtered and moderated version of all security lists. Of course, information is should be free and have full disclosure (NOT IT'S SHOULDN'T) (YES IT SHOULD) (NO) (YES) (NO) (YES)... so that would bad. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Of course, I am not proposing clari.security.god-like.tidbits or anything, I just cannot believe the egos, the posturing, and same arguments going 'round and 'round (Usenet-itis). So, for many of us, if you want to take the heat of declaring yourself censure for security and start a list like RISKS, that would be great. I'd definitely send you a box of chocolates and a sincere thanks. :-) jen -- Jennifer Joy sys/net admin Motorola/RISC HW Austin,TX jjoy@risc.sps.mot.com 512.891.8561 fax:512.891.3190 pgr:933-7333 #898561